BMW and Toyota to jointly develop a sports car

[Motor]

BMW Group and Toyota Motor Corporation agree to further strengthen collaboration

Tokyo/Munich. Akio Toyoda, President of Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC), met today with Norbert Reithofer, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG, at BMW Group headquarters in Munich to announce the planned expansion of their existing cooperation initiated in December last year. The two companies signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) aimed at long-term strategic collaboration in four fields: joint development of a fuel cell system, joint development of architecture and components for a future sports vehicle, collaboration on powertrain electrification and joint research and development on lightweight technologies.

Also today, Norbert Reithofer and Akio Toyoda of TMC both signed a Joint Statement to reconfirm their companies' shared intention to strengthen the long-term, strategic collaboration between them.

Reithofer said: "We aim to further strengthen our competitive position in sustainable future technologies. We signed an MoU to this effect today. Toyota and the BMW Group share the same strategic vision of sustainable individual future mobility. Together we have a great opportunity to continue leading our industry through this transformation."

Toyoda added: "BMW and Toyota both want to make ever-better cars. We respect each other. And I think this is shown by our taking the next step only six months since the signing of our initial agreement. Toyota is strong in environment-friendly hybrids and fuel cells. On the other hand, I believe BMW's strength is in developing sports cars. I am excited to think of the cars that will result from this relationship."

In March 2012, the BMW Group and TMC signed a binding agreement on collaborative research in the field of next-generation lithium-ion battery cells. In addition, the BMW Group and Toyota Motor Europe entered into a contract under which the BMW Group will supply highly-efficient 1.6 litre and 2.0 litre diesel engines to Toyota Motor Europe, starting in 2014.

Today's MoU represents the companies' agreement in December last year to identify and discuss other possible collaborative projects.

Exciting news. My only gripe with that press release is that, BMW's never built anything like the LFA, and Toyota does indeed have experience in developing sports cars (Celica, Supra, MR2, 86, IS F...). Looking forward to the car.

[JaKKaL]

^ agreed. Toyota has already done more r&d in hybrid & alt fuel sources than most other compaines. What BMW is wanting to get out of them is pretty obvious but what eaxactly is Toyota after? They already have the highest end (japanse) sports/hyper car and as for excess luxury features, isnt that the point of Lexus??

[CelicaBigginer]

IS FM3

[yodaddyguido]

i'm for it.

[Genomaxter]

Im all for Toyota using more technology. Akio knows what it means to be wise. If you feel you cant make a proper car on your own, get some help. So long as BMW feels they are getting something out of it, this is win-win for everyone! Only arrogant people think they have the answer to everything. Im very please with how Akio is leading Toyota.

[lajlijthoj]

I hope they make another one that's affordable. =)

[atrac7GTS]

BMW gives a driver a great experience no matter what model for the most part. Toyota in today's age isn't exactly known for a drivers car for the masses. Hopefully we get something good.

[Dimaoala]

Can't wait for more info and concept pictures of this car. But I wonder what class size there going for? Supra, MR2, LFA II?

Hmmmm.

[ajh1717]

Can Toyota make a sports car independently?

[lamboceliGTS]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

Can Toyota make a sports car independently?

Supra, MR-2

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by lamboceliGTS

Supra, MR-2

I'm talking about now, not the past. And if you dig deep, the 2jz has roots in BMWs straight 6.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by atrac7GTS

BMW gives a driver a great experience no matter what model for the most part. Toyota in today's age isn't exactly known for a drivers car for the masses. Hopefully we get something good.

That may have been true in the past, I personally loved the way 90's Beemerz handle & felt to drive w/ the extra stiff steering, but have you driven any of the new ones from the past 5ish years? They decided to change the whole dynamics of their ride to that soft Euro Cloud Feel to the road , kinda like AUDI & Volvo have.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

AUDI

inb4k2blowsafit

[The__J__Factor]

This is good for toyota. BMW make great engines.

BMW and Toyota have already announced the German car maker will supply Toyota with 1.6-litre and 2.0-litre turbo diesel engines from 2014, and in March this year signed a binding agreement on joint research into future lithium-ion battery cell technology.

Toyota will also probably get a decent rwd platform to create a larger than FT86 sports car on.

BMW gets hybrid tech.

Good match up.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

They already have the highest end (japanse) sports/hyper car

The LFA is by no means a hyper car. Not even close.

[Motor]

Update!

The BMW-Toyota sports car? Possibilities are intriguing

The sports car that BMW and Toyota plan to jointly develop could be a way for Toyota to leap back into a performance segment it has abandoned or possibly provide a high-priced sports model for Toyota's Lexus brand.

The two companies agreed last week to work together on an "environmentally friendly" sports car as well as on fuel-cell, electric vehicle components and lightweight materials.

"BMW's strength is in developing sports cars," said Toyota President Akio Toyoda, a racing fan who repeatedly has said he wants to add zest to Toyota's lineup. "I am excited to think of the cars that will result from this relationship."

Toyoda and BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer signed the agreement in Munich.

Details and timing of the cooperation were not discussed. But the sports cars will not be identical or share a common exterior design like the jointly developed Toyota 86, Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ coupes, said a BMW spokeswoman in Munich. The Toyota/Subaru coupes went on sale this year.

BMW's vehicle "will be a sustainable sports car with environmentally friendly technology," she said. "We are developing the architecture and components for this future car."

A BMW insider speculated that the collaboration could provide the basis for the return of the Toyota Supra, possibly using the BMW 6-series architecture. The Supra, once the performance spearhead of the Toyota lineup, was last produced in 2002.

"Anything is possible," the senior BMW manager told Autoweek, a sibling publication of Automotive News Europe. "The key factor is that the products of both companies retain their own individual character, despite jointly developed technologies."

A Lexus sports car also is a possibility. Lexus showed the LF-LC concept in January at the Detroit auto show. If the concept is built, an executive said the production version would be priced similar to a Porsche 911 Turbo, which sells for more than $137,500. Borrowing BMW's expertise in suspension technology could lend better driving feel and responsiveness to the Lexus brand.

Jim Hall, principal of 2953 Analytics Inc. in suburban Detroit, said Toyota could use technology from the BMW i8 plug-in hybrid sports car.

"It would be an expensive car," Hall said. "There is an argument that Lexus needs it and that is the logical place for them to do it."

BMW is expected to price the i8 at around $125,000 when it goes on sale in the first quarter of 2014. Sharing the i8 technology with Toyota would help BMW spread the cost of the i8's expensive components.

In March, BMW agreed to supply Toyota with its diesel engines starting in 2014 in exchange for collaboration on lithium-ion battery research.

Toyota has been the industry leader in hybrid vehicles, while BMW has expertise in carbon fiber.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

The LFA is by no means a hyper car. Not even close.

The OG LFA is the first 'REAL' supercar from Japan, the GTR's more of just an exotic sport. The LFA2 is prolly gonna be their closet thing to a hyper car for quite a while.

[brianv3ntura]

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

The OG LFA is the first 'REAL' supercar from Japan, the GTR's more of just an exotic sport. The LFA2 is prolly gonna be their closet thing to a hyper car for quite a while.

Lots more say the 2000gt is Japan's first supercar

[gameboi]

the thing about joining with BMW means that the car definitely won't be cheap! If anything its not for the avg person...i kind of doubt they are aiming for a 30k sports car with all that technology...heck even 40k; i think it will be 45+

[Zero]

Originally Posted by gameboi

the thing about joining with BMW means that the car definitely won't be cheap! If anything its not for the avg person...i kind of doubt they are aiming for a 30k sports car with all that technology...heck even 40k; i think it will be 45+

yeah, supra.

[DxBOY15]

how exciting lol looking forward to the concept

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

The OG LFA is the first 'REAL' supercar from Japan, the GTR's more of just an exotic sport. The LFA2 is prolly gonna be their closet thing to a hyper car for quite a while.

Not really. Supercars are not dedicated by price only. The GTR is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as other cars, but performs just as well. I wouldn't call the zr1 a sports car. I'd call it a super car based on its numbers and specs.

As for first supercar - you are forgetting 2000gt, supra (ehhh on the supercar realm) and the NSX. If you get picky, the NSX WAS the first true modern super car from Japan

As for the LFA 2, I don't think it will be any where near a hyper car. That isn't their style.

[GSBoek]

Originally Posted by Motor

A BMW insider speculated that the collaboration could provide the basis for the return of the Toyota Supra, possibly using the BMW 6-series architecture.

I actually like the sound of this.

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

The LFA is by no means a hyper car. Not even close.

I'd have to cordially disagree.

Anything more than 30k for me is a super car.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by NoRulzAt140 Mph

I'd have to cordially disagree.

Anything more than 30k for me is a super car.

Mustang GT premium is a supercar

[Soo__Fuego]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

Can Toyota make a sports car independently?

That's stupid, of course they can. But Toyota isn't the best selling car brand by mistake. They go about things smart, why spend extra money on development and testing on a completely new product (engine, chassis, etc) when they can get them from someone else.

Originally Posted by gameboi

the thing about joining with BMW means that the car definitely won't be cheap! If anything its not for the avg person...i kind of doubt they are aiming for a 30k sports car with all that technology...heck even 40k; i think it will be 45+

The original article says BMW will supply 1.6l and 2.0l motors, that's not a motor choice for cars in that price segment.

[GSBoek]

I think the possibility of a Supra based on the 6-series platform means that BMW will mostly provide the chassis and Toyota will develop their own powertrain. They obviously won't be using those engines for the Supra successor.

[Soo__Fuego]

Fuck you Gio.































































jk, Good morning, how's sunny cure-a-cow?

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by Soo__Fuego

That's stupid, of course they can.

As of recently, doesn't seem that way.

Originally Posted by Soo__Fuego

They go about things smart, why spend extra money on development and testing on a completely new product (engine, chassis, etc) when they can get them from someone else.

Well, if we look at recent times (very recent), apparently they supplied all the funds to Subaru for the FRS. So, they are still forking over the money, just not doing it themselves.

If you are spending the money (as per with the FRS), why not just do it in house? Make it a true toyota car

[Soo__Fuego]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

As of recently, doesn't seem that way.


Well, if we look at recent times (very recent), apparently they supplied all the funds to Subaru for the FRS. So, they are still forking over the money, just not doing it themselves.

If you are spending the money (as per with the FRS), why not just do it in house? Make it a true toyota car

There's a different between can't or don't want to.


TMC owns a share of Fuji, so they're not funding a brand that's completely independent from them. They saved money not designing a new motor or rear suspension. Can you imagine the FR-S with that lump of a motor in the Tc? 2.4l making 180hp, pass.

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

16.5%

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by Soo__Fuego

TMC owns a share of Fuji, so they're not funding a brand that's completely independent from them. They saved money not designing a new motor or rear suspension. Can you imagine the FR-S with that lump of a motor in the Tc? 2.4l making 180hp, pass.

Um, 20 more bhp is not really a huge increase, at all.

If they wanted, all they would have needed to do was add the direct injection system to it and they probably would have had more power than the FRS engine.

I'm not knocking toyota, its just they seem to rely recently on other engineering while footing the bill for the most part.

[Soo__Fuego]

Go drive a Tc, those motors have not top end at all. It's the motor used to chug around the Camry, it's perfect to carry a big car around town but for spirited driving it's caca. Plus I'm sure it weighs more than the smaller FR-S motor.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

Not really. Supercars are not dedicated by price only. The GTR is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as other cars, but performs just as well. I wouldn't call the zr1 a sports car. I'd call it a super car based on its numbers and specs.

As for first supercar - you are forgetting 2000gt, supra (ehhh on the supercar realm) and the NSX. If you get picky, the NSX WAS the first true modern super car from Japan

As for the LFA 2, I don't think it will be any where near a hyper car. That isn't their style.

I consider the 2000gt a 60's exotic meant to compete against things like the E-type Jag. The Supra was just their M3 competitor & The NSX had the look but not the power to push it up to the Super Realm

[DANZZT231]

Almost everyone these days are joining forces, and this is a great thing for us the customer. Can Toyota build sportscar on their own? Sure they can, but it would also mean expensive and everybody suffers. Check out today's prices for commodities, R&D, oil etc, things are just more expensive these days compared many2 years ago. By joining force they save a lot of money on research and development and can release products faster to the market.

And many moons ago people are skeptical with Toyobaru idea, but the sales figures puts skeptics to sleep. Believe it, is a great thing Toyota join up with BMW.

Who else are joining forces?

Mazda and FIAT are and now think for a minute; Skyactiv plus FIAT's turbo technology. Both are known to make power in a brutally efficient manner, and having the two technologies combined we may see RX-7 once again. And one that is easy for the petrol bill.

Nissan/Renault and Mercedes. French ride + Japanese techno wiz + German brute power. Again another good thing, but I haven't seen the strategic point of it just yet, but seems like the trio wants to focus on new engine development. However, all three are known to make insane sports car.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

I consider the 2000gt a 60's exotic meant to compete against things like the E-type Jag. The Supra was just their M3 competitor & The NSX had the look but not the power to push it up to the Super Realm

A 3 liter v6 that is a low 13 second car made in 91 not on the supercar realm? Okay.

[KAT_Ayanami]

Originally Posted by The__J__Factor

This is good for toyota. BMW make great engines.

If you ignore the fact that you have to rebuild the heads after 100k miles. Then yes.

[Zero]

I just hope they add in a dipstick to check the oil.

[The__J__Factor]

They don't win numerous engine of the year awards every year for no reason

[gte]

No it doesn't, it has roots deep in the 5mge ... wtf are you talking about?

Mercedes has had a straight six for over 100 years, longer than bmw, but saying that the 2j goes back to either one of them, because they had completely incomparable engines to the 2j is ridiculous at best. That's about as accurate as saying that the 2j has roots to the first farmer that pulled a buggy or plow with six horses lined up in a row.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

I'm talking about now, not the past. And if you dig deep, the 2jz has roots in BMWs straight 6.

[gte]

I sure hope so, I would be first in line for this, but not if it was powered by a bmw engine.

Originally Posted by GSBoek

I think the possibility of a Supra based on the 6-series platform means that BMW will mostly provide the chassis and Toyota will develop their own powertrain. They obviously won't be using those engines for the Supra successor.

[GSBoek]

Originally Posted by gte

No it doesn't, it has roots deep in the 5mge

The 5M-GE on its turn has roots in the 3M from the Toyota 2000GT. If anything we should point to Jaguar for the roots of the 2JZ.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by gte

No it doesn't, it has roots deep in the 5mge ... wtf are you talking about?

Mercedes has had a straight six for over 100 years, longer than bmw, but saying that the 2j goes back to either one of them, because they had completely incomparable engines to the 2j is ridiculous at best. That's about as accurate as saying that the 2j has roots to the first farmer that pulled a buggy or plow with six horses lined up in a row.

The roots don't go back to BMW because of the cylinder configuration, jesus I didn't think anyone was that stupid.

But since I need to spell it out, here is a quote from a Supra forum member, which was pulled from a Wiki article and some other sources.

The 2JZ-GTE is an inline-layout, six-cylinder, belt-driven dual-overhead camshaft, air-intercooled, twin-turbocharged, cast-iron block, aluminium cylinder headed engine designed and manufactured by Toyota Motor Corporation that was produced from 1991 until 2002 in Japan. Development and evolution of the engine was, principally, a response to Nissan's relatively new and then-successful RB26DETT engine which had achieved palpable success in FIA Group A and Group N touring car championships, worldwide. Final development of the 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German engineering firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH for refinement to meet production car homologation requirements set forth by the former All-Japan Grand Touring Car Championship.

Originally Posted by GSBoek

If anything we should point to Jaguar for the roots of the 2JZ.

.

[GSBoek]

Yep, Krause was indeed handed a contract to do the final development work on the GTE version of the JZ series. They had a good design to start with though, which stemmed from Toyota's experience with the F, M, G and FZ-series inline sixes.

[gte]

I'm well aware of that, the reason I ommited it was because the discussion was centered around the Supra, but the 2000gt is a valid point

Originally Posted by GSBoek

The 5M-GE on its turn has roots in the 3M from the Toyota 2000GT. If anything we should point to Jaguar for the roots of the 2JZ.

[gte]

Apparently you are that stupid as you are now equating "final development" to roots, which is ridiculous. The 2j was built on the 1j and it has very little bottom end difference aside from the stroke and deck height.

Your intelligence is apparently inversely proportional to your over confidence.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

The roots don't go back to BMW because of the cylinder configuration, jesus I didn't think anyone was that stupid.

But since I need to spell it out, here is a quote from a Supra forum member, which was pulled from a Wiki article and some other sources.





.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

Yep, Krause was indeed handed a contract to do the final development work on the GTE version of the JZ series. They had a good design to start with though, which stemmed from Toyota's experience with the F, M, G and FZ-series inline sixes.

Originally Posted by gte

Apparently you are that stupid as you are now equating "final development" to roots, which is ridiculous. The 2j was built on the 1j and it has very little bottom end difference aside from the stroke and deck height.

Your intelligence is apparently inversely proportional to your over confidence.

Holy shit. Are you that stupid? Do you know what "final development" means? It means the final stages of R&D, design, prototypes, CAD, testing, building, not manufacturing.

I feel like I'm arguing with a wall

[GSBoek]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

It means the final stages of R&D, design, prototypes, CAD, testing, building, not manufacturing.

This was not the case with the contract with Krause though. The work that Krause did was mainly focused on the turbocharging. They were basically handed a 2JZ-GE engine which was already fully developed and in production (mind you, the JZ-series started life in 1989, development was done by Toyota in the years prior) and they came up with the sequential turbo system and possibly the pistons. They had a good engine to start with which was all Toyota's own work.

[gte]

And you are owned ... As in the only wall here is you dumbass.

I revert back to my previous mention of the 1j and how your intelligence is inversely proportional to your over confidence.

Btw, Kyocera helped develop the silicon nitride parts used in the 2j's sequential setup. If I wasn't writing this on my phone I'd write more education for you.

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

The work that Krause did was mainly focused on the turbocharging.

That changes:

intake manifold
head
piston
exhuast

That is a lot to change, especially when you are going from N/A to turbo.