BMW and Toyota to jointly develop a sports car

[GSBoek]

Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

That changes:

intake manifold
head
piston
exhuast

That is a lot to change, especially when you are going from N/A to turbo.

The intake manifold, piston and exhaust are a given but that's fairly normal stuff to do when you go full on turbo. Changes in the head were negligent though. The N/A heads match and sometimes exceed the TT heads in flow.

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.

Interesting

[NoRulzAt140 Mph]

Originally Posted by ajh1717

A 3 liter v6 that is a low 13 second car made in 91 not on the supercar realm? Okay.

The initial NSX was more of a high 13 car. Mostly anyway. That being said, the 2JZ has 'roots' from German engineering but not necessarily BMW.

Either way, this should be fun to watch unfold if anything.

[gte]

And you are still the wall, now grasping at straws and looking for any possible connection to try and sound correct. The head is a yamaha design, similar to most other G designation motors. The turbochargers were designed with hitachi and the exhaust manifold is a pos that was designed for spacial constraints (I am guessing you meant exhaust manifold and not exhaust)

Again, final means final. Toyota did the majority of the work with the 1j and they did final adjustments.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

That changes:

intake manifold
head
piston
exhuast

That is a lot to change, especially when you are going from N/A to turbo.

[Motor]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

Ok guys, keep the name calling and referrences to inteligence out of this.

Thanks.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by gte

I sure hope so, I would be first in line for this, but not if it was powered by a bmw engine.

A new supra would be awesome, but the 6series is a prettty large coupe & if their planning on using its chassis then what ever resulted would be to. I'm personaly hopping they use some thing like the 3 series as the base for this hypothetical new supra. And they actualy make somthing worthy of the supras legacy & not just a hi powered boat.

[gte]

That is true, the mk4 was about as heavy as the Supra should ever be, there is no reason for it to be as heavy as the GTR, unless it were to be awd and have a ton of technology added to it, but I'd rather see it go the other way and more towards a sports car then a technological wonder.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by gte

That is true, the mk4 was about as heavy as the Supra should ever be, there is no reason for it to be as heavy as the GTR, unless it were to be awd and have a ton of technology added to it, but I'd rather see it go the other way and more towards a sports car then a technological wonder.

The LFA was there awnser to the GTR, so hopefully this will be there's to the Z just like the suppra was always meant to be

[gte]

Totally agreed, although the LFA is unfortunately made entirely of Unobtanium, I could at least buy a GTR if I wanted a retardedly high car payment. I have a hard time comparing 90k to 375k and calling it apples to apples.

[gte]

Hey Andy ... where are you at? Did you digress finally?

By the way, I can school you on the IS3 if you want also.

[GSBoek]

Originally Posted by NoRulzAt140 Mph

Intellesting

inorite

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

The intake manifold, piston and exhaust are a given but that's fairly normal stuff to do when you go full on turbo.

I know, but just because the guy didn't design the block, you can't discredit designing the turbo parts as not important or not significant.

The fact that he had a big part in making the turbo aspect come to life, is still extremely significant. Without the turbos, no one would have appeal to the GTE.

Originally Posted by gte

Hey Andy ... where are you at? Did you digress finally?

I'm sorry, did you want me sitting around on this thread refreshing the page at the edge of my seat waiting to reply to you?

[gte]

That's what you were doing earlier Andy so yes ... I was just wondering if you did what most NYers do when they get owned and run away, that's all.

As for the Germans, you are still giving them far too much credit in a grasping of straws attempt to prove yourself correct. The Supra became very very popular for 2 reasons, with about 2000 dollars you could increase the cars horsepower by almost 200hp and the first Fast and Furious. You could argue that turbo design played a small part in that, but even if they had just grafted the 1j's turbochargers onto the car or even a larger version of the 7m's ct26, it still was destined to be a very popular car. Did you hear me when I told you Hitachi and Toyota developed the turbos and Kyocera the silicone nitride sequential parts? That firm was outsourced to make tweaks to the production car so that it was close enough to the homologated car to fit within the rules, that's about it.

As a matter of fact, all of the parts that were designed by Toyota are what has made the car legendary, (I don't see a list of what the firm did so I'll placate you and reference the turbos that Toyota and Hitachi designed) the turbos are the first thing the owners pull off when they are trying to make a moderate to high power figure.

All of your crutches have been taken away from you, you need to admit defeat and move on. Class is still in session if you want to learn anything about your IS300.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

I know, but just because the guy didn't design the block, you can't discredit designing the turbo parts as not important or not significant.

The fact that he had a big part in making the turbo aspect come to life, is still extremely significant. Without the turbos, no one would have appeal to the GTE.

I'm sorry, did you want me sitting around on this thread refreshing the page at the edge of my seat waiting to reply to you?

[GSBoek]

Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by GSBoek

Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.

Mabey the Supra's new engine will be based off BMW's I6tt, ...( just like the last one supposedly was. )

[ajh1717]

Originally Posted by gte

the turbos are the first thing the owners pull off when they are trying to make a moderate to high power figure

So, since the stock turbos aren't enough for people who want to make high power we should play it off like it is not big deal? Okay.

Originally Posted by gte

That firm was outsourced to make tweaks to the production car so that it was close enough to the homologated car to fit within the rules, that's about it.

So a Japanese company started, then outsourced to German because they realized it would be better to reach the final product? Okay, I guess Germans really did not have a crucial part in this and it was all Toyota with no help.

[gte]

There part was mediocre, not crucial at all. It was "crucial" for Toyota and its aspirations to have a homologated car, but not crucial in the sense you are implying it.

That firm didn't do squat for the enthusiasts, they did something for a sanctioned racing body for Toyota and that's it.

If you knew anything about the mk3 or 7m you'd know that all the ground work for the 2j, all of the important design and changes to produce a better motor than the 7m were all done by Toyota, it is blatantly obvious.

If you get a list of exactly what that firm did, I'll be happy to reevaluate, but as of this point there is no evidence that they did much of anything outside of the homologation of the already built and designed factory car, for the racing body.

Originally Posted by ajh1717

So, since the stock turbos aren't enough for people who want to make high power we should play it off like it is not big deal? Okay.



So a Japanese company started, then outsourced to German because they realized it would be better to reach the final product? Okay, I guess Germans really did not have a crucial part in this and it was all Toyota with no help.

[gte]

There is no alternative to an I6, screw compactness and screw environmental nonsense.

The car needs to be a torquey 3.8 or 4l inline six with a stroke and rod ratio that favor torque. It needs 2 larger sequential turbos, say 500 bhp with lots of room to grow with a few thousand in modifications.

This time they need to make the cylinder walls much thicker to give enthusiasts room to grow, vvti and a beastly 6 speed manual again.

Originally Posted by GSBoek

Do you guys think we'll see a twin turbo straight six make it to the next Supra? It would totally be the right thing to do historically.

[GSBoek]

Tell me about it, I guess I'm biased. My first car had the 5M engine. Currently building a 5M-GE/6M-GE hybrid for it.

[gte]

You still have your first car?

That is awesome!

[GSBoek]

Yep. Need to update the thread a little bit more.

http://newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285661

[JaKKaL]

Originally Posted by gte

There is no alternative to an I6, screw compactness and screw environmental nonsense.

The car needs to be a torquey 3.8 or 4l inline six with a stroke and rod ratio that favor torque. It needs 2 larger sequential turbos, say 500 bhp with lots of room to grow with a few thousand in modifications.

This time they need to make the cylinder walls much thicker to give enthusiasts room to grow, vvti and a beastly 6 speed manual again.

Well that would certainly scare a GTR. But something like that would most likely end up being in the exotic price range. The FRS is an awesome car & will prolly be a rememberable cult classic. But what they realy need & would most honor the supra name is a bigger verision of that (FRX maybe ) with a modern i6tt that can out run a SS Camero but is only around the 40-50ish range.

[gte]

500bhp is 80 less than the gtr, and I think "my car" can be built for 45k. The engine size should add almost nothing to the cost, same with the turbo size, r and d is going to cost no matter what. I think that is your "bigger version"?

Since the v6 camaro has 300+ hp, the turbocharged I6 Supra better have 500hp.

I liked the FRS until they deviated from the prototype v2, now I hate it.

Originally Posted by JaKKaL

Well that would certainly scare a GTR. But something like that would most likely end up being in the exotic price range. The FRS is an awesome car & will prolly be a rememberable cult classic. But what they realy need & would most honor the supra name is a bigger verision of that (FRX maybe ) with a modern i6tt that can out run a SS Camero but is only around the 40-50ish range.

[Motor]

Update!

BMW and Toyota Ink Deal to Partner on Fuel Cell, Sports Car, Lightweight Technology

Corporation Deepen Collaboration by Signing Binding Agreements

Fuel Cell System, Sports Vehicle, Lightweight Technology and Lithium-air Battery Collaboration to Commence

BMW Group and Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) are pursuing their successful strategic long-term cooperation in the field of sustainable mobility today by signing binding agreements aimed at long-term collaboration between the two companies for the joint development of a fuel cell system, joint development of architecture and components for a sports vehicle, and joint research and development of lightweight technologies. These agreements follow a memorandum of understanding signed in June 2012.

Furthermore, BMW Group and TMC also today signed a binding agreement to commence collaborative research on lithium-air batteries, a post-lithium-battery solution. This agreement marks the second phase of collaborative research into next-generation lithium-ion battery cells that commenced in March 2012.

The main points of the agreements are:

1. Fuel cell system
- The companies are convinced that fuel cell technology is one of the solutions necessary to achieve zero emissions. BMW Group and TMC are to share their technologies and to jointly develop a fundamental fuel-cell vehicle system, including not only a fuel cell stack and system, but also a hydrogen tank, motor and battery, aiming for completion in 2020.

- The companies are to collaborate in jointly developing codes and standards for the hydrogen infrastructure which are necessary for the popularization of fuel cell vehicles.

2. Sports vehicle
- The companies agreed to set-up a feasibility study to define a joint platform concept for a mid-size sports vehicle that is to be completed by the end of 2013. The two companies aim to combine each other’s technology and knowledge at a high level to maximise customer satisfaction. Both companies are to share the vision to further collaborate in the field of sports vehicle development.

3. Lightweight technology
The companies are to jointly develop lightweight technologies for vehicle bodies using cutting-edge materials such as reinforced composites, with an eye to utilize these technologies in cooperation on the joint development of a sports-vehicle platform as well as other BMW and TMC vehicles.

4. Post-lithium-battery technology
The companies are to begin joint research with a goal to develop a lithium-air battery with energy density greatly exceeding that of current lithium-ion batteries.

Norbert Reithofer, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG said: “TMC and the BMW Group share the same strategic vision of future sustainable mobility. In light of the technological changes ahead, the entire automotive industry faces tremendous challenges, which we also regard as an opportunity. This collaboration is an important building block in keeping both companies on a successful course in the future.”

Akio Toyoda, President of TMC said: “It is just over a year since we signed our collaborative MoU, and with each day as our relationship strengthens, we feel acutely that we are making steadfast progress. Now, we are entering the phase that promises the fruit. While placing importance on what we learn from the joint development, we will work hard together in reaching our common goal of making ever-better cars.”

BMW Group and TMC first agreed to form a medium-to-long-term collaborative relationship for developing next-generation environment-friendly vehicles and technologies in December 2011, at which time the two companies also signed a contract under which BMW Group is to supply highly efficient diesel engines to Toyota Motor Europe. BMW Group and TMC - as long-term strategic partners - have since continued their joint efforts to realize sustainable mobility for the future.

I smell Supra...

[forzaforreal]

Originally Posted by Motor

I smell Supra...

Oh please

Is Toyota the company that will sell it?

[Motor]

Originally Posted by forzaforreal

Is Toyota the company that will sell it?

Both companies will sell their own version of the car, just like Toyota and Subaru are doing right now with the 86 and BRZ. The Supra comment is just wishful thinking on my part.

[straight rippin]

I can't wait!

[2KGTS]

It'll be a heavy pig.

[forzaforreal]

Originally Posted by Motor

Both companies will sell their own version of the car, just like Toyota and Subaru are doing right now with the 86 and BRZ.

Ew.