Nolat Lift Controller - How To Build!

[jlitman]

Note that you will need to consult the correct ECU pin out for your vehicle in order to do this -- the pins listed above are for the Matrix.

You MUST also include a device for tuning fuel and spark (e.g., emanage ultimate) AND a Camcon to adjust VVTI to use the lift controller effectively.

Moreover, you MUST DYNO TUNE to determine whether you are making any gains.

USE THESE INSTRUCTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK.

For larger pictures see further http://www.celicateamitalia.com/modu...wtopic&t=11003

This worked perfectly for me -- no CELs or any driveability quirks whatsoever -- amazing!

By being able to adjust lift in harmony with fuel, spark, and VVTi, I picked up 15 -20 whp in the midrange (although keep in mind I have a S/C) and can now effortlessly stay in lift with every upshift in WOT (first auto to do that I think).

[monkeyb01]

Interesting. But wouldn't it be easier to just purchase a pfc since you will need an emanage ultimate for example to tune it?

[jlitman]

^^^ Not if:

1. You drive an auto.
2. You drive a DBW car.
3. You already have a tuned Emanage and want to keep it but would like the opportunity to make more power.

There's other benefits (and liabilites) to this set up -- but those three types of individuals listed above are the ones who would be most interested.

[Robo56]

So if I have emanage blue, I can't manipulate lift point with just that right?

[x310gtsx]

not with the emanage alone. you would also need a camcon and the nolat lift controller from what i remember. also thanks for reposting the info man.

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by jlitman

^^^ Not if:

1. You drive an auto.
2. You drive a DBW car.
3. You already have a tuned Emanage and want to keep it but would like the opportunity to make more power.

There's other benefits (and liabilites) to this set up -- but those three types of individuals listed above are the ones who would be most interested.

but they make a harness for auto+pfc now no?

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by Bitter

but they make a harness for auto+pfc now no?

Brashboy did... apparently they are no longer in business

http://translate.google.com/translat...Bboy%26hl%3Den

[turbo-k]

jlitman, how is your lift?? i have change my lift to 5500rpm and my a/f is around 13.0-13.2 and adjusted my ignition maps but it doesnt kick hard. it feels like something is holding out. but when it hits 6500rpm where the factory is set at, it kicks in hard. any ideas?

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by turbo-k

jlitman, how is your lift?? i have change my lift to 5500rpm and my a/f is around 13.0-13.2 and adjusted my ignition maps but it doesnt kick hard. it feels like something is holding out. but when it hits 6500rpm where the factory is set at, it kicks in hard. any ideas?

Sounds like it's not working.

My lift controller works perfectly. Lift comes on, as set by the window switch, at 5.2K and goes off at 5K

You might want to richen it up there too, especially if you're boosted...

[turbo-k]

Originally Posted by jlitman

Sounds like it's not working.

My lift controller works perfectly. Lift comes on, as set by the window switch, at 5.2K and goes off at 5K

You might want to richen it up there too, especially if you're boosted...

mine is functioning properly... i set lift at 5500...when lift enguages, you can hear it but it goes no where and when it gets up to 6500 where the stock ecu turns lifts on, then it starts pulling harder... i got greddy emu and im n/a

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by turbo-k

mine is functioning properly... i set lift at 5500...when lift enguages, you can hear it but it goes no where and when it gets up to 6500 where the stock ecu turns lifts on, then it starts pulling harder... i got greddy emu and im n/a

You won't necessarily feel it kick in. Toyota set it late so that you feel the torque come back after dropping off right before lift. If set properly, it should be nice and smooth.

You'd have to test and tune this on a dyno. If you set this just from road tuning you may have lost power, especially if setting it so low...

Anyway, if it's engaging you should skew lean when it comes on early until you add more duel.

Also, do you have a camcon to tune VVT? You might be able to drop lift to about 5700-5800 without touching VVTi, but that's about it.

You still need to be testing this on the dyno.

If you want to make sure it's working, set it to something really low, and see if you get a CEL and/or make the car run rough or stall.

[gte]

Turbo-k,

My Corolla did the same thing, I believe this is due to a combination of fuel, timing and cam phase, but I'll need to get a nice scanner tool to verify, which will hopefully be done by the end of this month, I will post the results if I do.

I also don't believe you have to have a second solenoid plugged in to keep the ecu happy, but I won't be able to test that until later on. You DEFINITELY don't need the micro switch, you can use a dual output rpm window switch (from summit) instead of that switch and extra solenoid.

Here is the circuit that I did, but it's being improved at the moment.

Originally Posted by turbo-k

mine is functioning properly... i set lift at 5500...when lift enguages, you can hear it but it goes no where and when it gets up to 6500 where the stock ecu turns lifts on, then it starts pulling harder... i got greddy emu and im n/a

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by gte

I also don't believe you have to have a second solenoid plugged in to keep the ecu happy,

Yes you do. In fact, that's how the vmanage works too.

[gte]

If you're telling me there is no other alternative to having a second oil control valve solenoid plugged into the stock harness and secured to some place other than location that original oil control valve is mounted to on the cylinder head ... I'm not going to argue with you about it, we'll just make a wager, name the terms.

Originally Posted by jlitman

Yes you do. In fact, that's how the vmanage works too.

[jlitman]

Originally Posted by gte

If you're telling me there is no other alternative to having a second oil control valve solenoid plugged into the stock harness and secured to some place other than location that original oil control valve is mounted to on the cylinder head ... I'm not going to argue with you about it, we'll just make a wager, name the terms.

The ECU needs to operate something -- so long as whatever it sees in terms of voltage etc. spoofs the necessary signals it will work. The easiest way is with a spare solenoid, but it doesn't have to be that if you can mimic the correct signals.

If you can get this to work with NOTHING connected for the ECU to see as operating as normal I will cheerfully paypal you money for a pint of good beer.

[gte]

I agree with you, something has to be there, just doesn't have to be a ~$100 (new, used costs can vary greatly I'd guess) solenoid, which leads to my original statement of

I also don't believe you have to have a second solenoid plugged in to keep the ecu happy

You are correct, a plug and play stock spare sensor is the easiest because Toyota designed it and it plugs right in, but I do believe there is a less expensive solution that is reasonably easy ... I'll keep you posted though, as I need to thoroughly test it first

Originally Posted by jlitman

The ECU needs to operate something -- so long as whatever it sees in terms of voltage etc. spoofs the necessary signals it will work. The easiest way is with a spare solenoid, but it doesn't have to be that if you can mimic the correct signals.

If you can get this to work with NOTHING connected for the ECU to see as operating as normal I will cheerfully paypal you money for a pint of good beer.

[jlitman]

^^^Oh, sorry -- I misunderstood you

Yes, you should be ale to assemble some sort of microswitch that will fool the ECU. Just make sure it sees exactly the same voltage and resistance as the OEM solenoid and it should work.

[Cap]

Yanked open a Celica 2ZZ ECU last night, and took a look..

From what I can see, The VVTL Sol Coil is is driven with a transistor from the +12 inside the ECU, and then the Return Curent is passed across a 1/2 Ohm resistor.. It looks like a Voltage measuring Circuit is checking the Voltage above Ground Potential of this Return Path..

The Coil average resistance ( Per BGB ) is 7.5 Ohm.. the return path resistor is 1/2 ohm.. so that makes the Total circuit resistance of 8 Ohm..

Thr transistor will have about a 1/2 Volt foreward voltage drop, so if the Circuit Voltage is 13.6 Volt, then the Coil+ Dropping Resistor will be seeing 12.9 Volt running.

That is 21 Watt of Heat.. with a little over 1 watt being dissiapated inside the Dropping Resistor, and about 19 Something watt out at the Coil..


The 'Dropping Resistor' inside the ECU is using the 1/2 Ohm resistor so the ECU can see a return path voltage of about 0.75 volt.. If the ECU see's this 0.75 Voltage on the return Path, it's happy..

If 'We' were going to simulate a Sol Coil with a relay, ( So the ECU can see the 0.75 Volt ) it would have to have a 7.5 Ohm Coil, or be Paralelled with a resistor to make the ECU 'See' the 7.5 Ohms.. Not a big Problem.. BUT.. the heat generated at the Relay woul be still 20 Watts.. ( that gets hotter than a Tail Lamp Bulb! )..

Another way is to Do it 'Electronically'.. Cut out the 1/2 Ohm Resistor, and Replace it with something like a 100 Ohm resistor, then do the Voltage Calcs on a Loading resistor ( to Simulate the Oil VVTIL Coil ) so the ECU can still see the 0.75 Volt it's happy with..

If the the latter project is undertaken, then the 'Ground Pin' (C-21 ) that normally goes to the Oil Switch, could be taken to ground with a Biasing Resistor.. Say 4.7 K Ohm.. then the ECU would still see a ground potential on the Oil Swith line.. Then take another resistor ( About 1K or So ) from the C-21 line to the New C-7 ( Positive on the Sol Coil ).. then when the ECU heates up the C-7 Line, the Load Resistor will caise the 0.75 Volt to be produced across the new Dropping resistor, ( The one that replaced the old 1/2 Ohm Unit ), and the now Over-Biased ground line ove the C-21, will be taken to some voltage above ground ( About 9 Volt or So ) and the ECU should be Happy with that..

I am presently hacking up my Celica 2ZZ ECU for install in my 1ZZ Spyder.. I'll post updated ad to this part of the progress.. as I am doing this anyway to keep the 2ZZ ECU happy running a 1ZZ what does not have all the Lift Stuff..

Cap

[Cap]

I reworked the Resistances involved, and came up with a Plan, to Multiply all the Values by 200.

This will allow the Values to be something the Local Radio Shack Electronics store will have..

The 1/2 Ohm Dropping Resistor located in the Return Path of the Sol Coil, becomes 100 Ohm..
The Old Sol coil resistance of 7.5 Ohm becomes 1500 Ohm..

This part of the Scheme worked as Planned. But I'm now Stopped on the Oil Switch. I was not expecting such LARGE resistors involves in the Oil Switch Circuit. They put a hell of an Electrical load on that switch. I'll need to go back and refigure the Resistances involved, and change them..

I just soldered the Oil Switch leads to the Ground for now. And the old Lift Sol Wires are terminated internally on the PC Board. By cutting a few traces, and using a few 1/2 watt resistors.

I was able to take the 1ZZ out for a drive, and it did not have a CEL at all!.. No I did not take it past 6.5k RPM!..

I'll figure out the Switch mod, and then get it warm and take it to 6.5 and see if that part works.. It'll be in a week or so.. a few projects are planned for this weekend & week..

Cap

[gte]

This is close, but not correct.

The VVTl solenoid is driven with square wave 0-10v signals. The solenoid itself is 8.2ohms of resistance (at least mine was).

The forward voltage drop is actually .65-7 volts and total wattage for the system is 12 to 13 watts. The ecu monitors current and makes sure it is correct as well, not just voltage.

Originally Posted by Cap

Yanked open a Celica 2ZZ ECU last night, and took a look..

From what I can see, The VVTL Sol Coil is is driven with a transistor from the +12 inside the ECU, and then the Return Curent is passed across a 1/2 Ohm resistor.. It looks like a Voltage measuring Circuit is checking the Voltage above Ground Potential of this Return Path..

The Coil average resistance ( Per BGB ) is 7.5 Ohm.. the return path resistor is 1/2 ohm.. so that makes the Total circuit resistance of 8 Ohm..

Thr transistor will have about a 1/2 Volt foreward voltage drop, so if the Circuit Voltage is 13.6 Volt, then the Coil+ Dropping Resistor will be seeing 12.9 Volt running.

That is 21 Watt of Heat.. with a little over 1 watt being dissiapated inside the Dropping Resistor, and about 19 Something watt out at the Coil..


The 'Dropping Resistor' inside the ECU is using the 1/2 Ohm resistor so the ECU can see a return path voltage of about 0.75 volt.. If the ECU see's this 0.75 Voltage on the return Path, it's happy..

If 'We' were going to simulate a Sol Coil with a relay, ( So the ECU can see the 0.75 Volt ) it would have to have a 7.5 Ohm Coil, or be Paralelled with a resistor to make the ECU 'See' the 7.5 Ohms.. Not a big Problem.. BUT.. the heat generated at the Relay woul be still 20 Watts.. ( that gets hotter than a Tail Lamp Bulb! )..

Another way is to Do it 'Electronically'.. Cut out the 1/2 Ohm Resistor, and Replace it with something like a 100 Ohm resistor, then do the Voltage Calcs on a Loading resistor ( to Simulate the Oil VVTIL Coil ) so the ECU can still see the 0.75 Volt it's happy with..

If the the latter project is undertaken, then the 'Ground Pin' (C-21 ) that normally goes to the Oil Switch, could be taken to ground with a Biasing Resistor.. Say 4.7 K Ohm.. then the ECU would still see a ground potential on the Oil Swith line.. Then take another resistor ( About 1K or So ) from the C-21 line to the New C-7 ( Positive on the Sol Coil ).. then when the ECU heates up the C-7 Line, the Load Resistor will caise the 0.75 Volt to be produced across the new Dropping resistor, ( The one that replaced the old 1/2 Ohm Unit ), and the now Over-Biased ground line ove the C-21, will be taken to some voltage above ground ( About 9 Volt or So ) and the ECU should be Happy with that..

I am presently hacking up my Celica 2ZZ ECU for install in my 1ZZ Spyder.. I'll post updated ad to this part of the progress.. as I am doing this anyway to keep the 2ZZ ECU happy running a 1ZZ what does not have all the Lift Stuff..

Cap

Originally Posted by Cap

I reworked the Resistances involved, and came up with a Plan, to Multiply all the Values by 200.

This will allow the Values to be something the Local Radio Shack Electronics store will have..

The 1/2 Ohm Dropping Resistor located in the Return Path of the Sol Coil, becomes 100 Ohm..
The Old Sol coil resistance of 7.5 Ohm becomes 1500 Ohm..

This part of the Scheme worked as Planned. But I'm now Stopped on the Oil Switch. I was not expecting such LARGE resistors involves in the Oil Switch Circuit. They put a hell of an Electrical load on that switch. I'll need to go back and refigure the Resistances involved, and change them..

I just soldered the Oil Switch leads to the Ground for now. And the old Lift Sol Wires are terminated internally on the PC Board. By cutting a few traces, and using a few 1/2 watt resistors.

I was able to take the 1ZZ out for a drive, and it did not have a CEL at all!.. No I did not take it past 6.5k RPM!..

I'll figure out the Switch mod, and then get it warm and take it to 6.5 and see if that part works.. It'll be in a week or so.. a few projects are planned for this weekend & week..

Cap

[Cap]

Originally Posted by gte

This is close, but not correct.

The VVTl solenoid is driven with square wave 0-10v signals. .

I'm not dealing with the VVTI.. I'm Defeating the Lift Sol Circuitry, so it will not toss a Cell at you when something else is driving it.. or in my case, when it not even there!

They are Similar Circuits, and use the Same type of Power Supply, but I doubt the Lift sol is Pulsed.. I've not hooked a scope to it .. Have you?.. do you have a Switching Frequency?..

So far the 'Defeat' that I have used, has worked.. I have not tackled the Oil Pressure Circuity yet.. That is next on the 'List'.. After this is Finished..

http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthr...995#post707995

Cap

[gte]

Sorry, that was a typo (or a lowercase "el") I can't remember

It is pulsed just as the vvti one is (I have no idea why aside from maybe it being a cost savings), I have scoped it many many times. I built a circuit that 'defeats' it as well as the current draw simulator, but I've decided to include that circuit into a microchip circuit that I'm building for the air pump "defeat" along with a few other things that it will do.

It's a shame you aren't on the right coast, or I'd give you a look see

Originally Posted by Cap

I'm not dealing with the VVTI.. I'm Defeating the Lift Sol Circuitry, so it will not toss a Cell at you when something else is driving it.. or in my case, when it not even there!

They are Similar Circuits, and use the Same type of Power Supply, but I doubt the Lift sol is Pulsed.. I've not hooked a scope to it .. Have you?.. do you have a Switching Frequency?..

So far the 'Defeat' that I have used, has worked.. I have not tackled the Oil Pressure Circuity yet.. That is next on the 'List'.. After this is Finished..

http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthr...995#post707995

Cap

[Cap]

If it is Pulsed, then the Wattage is a bit less.. Thats Comforting..

Make sense if they are using the Same Sol Coil, to drive it the same way.. Probably only really needs a Steady DC of about 6 Volt to actuate.. Might as well use a PWM to get it..

Do you have the 'General Idea of the Cycle' of the VVTI Pulses?.. I'm looking to Log the Duty Cycle of the VVTI pulses to the Sol Coil, and I'm just wondering what range I'll be dealing with.. So I don't have to drag my Scope into the Moving Car.. < My Extension cord is not that long>

Cap

[gte]

The vvti is all over the place, IIRC 200 - 400hz

I'm confused though, you were talking about VVTL, now VVTI?

Originally Posted by Cap

If it is Pulsed, then the Wattage is a bit less.. Thats Comforting..

Make sense if they are using the Same Sol Coil, to drive it the same way.. Probably only really needs a Steady DC of about 6 Volt to actuate.. Might as well use a PWM to get it..

Do you have the 'General Idea of the Cycle' of the VVTI Pulses?.. I'm looking to Log the Duty Cycle of the VVTI pulses to the Sol Coil, and I'm just wondering what range I'll be dealing with.. So I don't have to drag my Scope into the Moving Car.. < My Extension cord is not that long>

Cap

[Cap]

I'm playing with Both..

Cap